Post by venadochivo on Jun 10, 2018 8:34:51 GMT -5
www.instagram.com/p/Bj2Hf32glgp/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=vbd3f0h6jnzyAny thoughts on what might be up with these hind legs? It seems another of my kids is developing a similar condition. I'm not up to speed with posting videos to my message, but I can send an Instagram link to e-mail if you care to see some footage. I believe the video gives a much better understanding of the condition. Thanks!
I can’t see a video ? Is it just bowed or does she seem to be really unsteady on her back legs? If unsteady it could be copper defiency. If not you said another kid. Do they share the same sire, related in any way? If so what is the history on sires kids? (If that is how they are related) other then genetic it could be selenium deficiency. Usually it showes up in the pasterns but can effect the legs too.
Post by venadochivo on Jun 10, 2018 9:09:56 GMT -5
I attached a photo of the hind legs of the young doe in question (10 wks old). I have a couple of videos that show the two kids in question walking around; I can send those via instagram link in e-mail if it helps. The two animals in question are from the same sire, but I don't know the history of this sire's offspring.
Looks exactly like Rickets. Caused by deficiency in Calcium or Phosphorus or a wide ratio between the two, plus possible inadequate Vit D which makes the long bone fail mineralization. Lesions get more pronounced at the ends of the long bones (epiphyes) where the growth occurs. Hyperparathyroidism can cause the same signs which is another disease but the Rickets is usually found in young kids and the pen in which they are kept usually has no Sun light. UV light produces Vit D through skin cells. I boost my Vit D in the winter because I live in a cold climate by adding Calf Manna to the feed in the darkest months when my herd gets very little sunshine which helps prevent that very thing.
With your kids though you do not want to try injecting Vit D to correct the issue because if it is a Calcium deficiency you will make matters worse. So proper diagnosis is recommenced by a Vet, along with research on getting your feeding ratios corrected. You may need modifications to your structures that allow the proper amount of UV light into the areas the animals are housed in. Or they may need more sunlight by turn out. The UV light into the structures also helps wipe out certain strains of bacteria. Another thing that should be done without fail is making sure all navels are dipped correctly. However I strongly would suggest a professional diagnosis because from the photo posted I think it is Rickets and not Navel Ill.
Post by venadochivo on Jun 10, 2018 18:53:01 GMT -5
I greatly appreciate the support!
This is a new development in the past couple of weeks. At first, I thought she was injured, but having seen other injuries in other animals heal more quickly, I began to doubt. Today, I captured the two animals in question and inspected their legs and hooves. Nothing of note in any of the areas examined. I felt along the legs and also trimmed the hooves which had minor overgrowth. All of my herd is on pasture pretty much full time, which has about 15 different varieties of weeds and trees as well as grass (grass being about 65% of the forage). I supplement their feed with alfalfa and oats, the greater portion being alfalfa.
I will see if I can get these animals examined soon, and I will keep you posted.
It looks like it’s just the one leg correct? Is that how the other kid is as well? Any chance another goat could be hooking them? Rickets, copper and selenium are usually both hind legs. I had a kid like this as well as a few kids limping one year and after watching everyone realized that I had a terribly mean doe in my herd that wasn’t just doing a normal hooking of other but seemed to be focusing on their back end/ legs. Either way though I fully agree having a vet give a hands on inspection should give you a for sure answer on what is going on. I’m very curious to see what they come up with so please if you get a answer let us know!
I'm glad to help you if possible. I know you would have felt a break or fracture if it is an injury. Plus heat in the limb itself along with possible fever in the animal. It is probable that you have an imbalance of what you are feeding. To me it sounds like your Calcium is too high. That can cause other very serious problems as well. For instance, if you are a breeder it can make kids so large in the last month of pregnancy that the doe may be unable to deliver or have a very hard time due to very large kids. My goats are fed based on information I learned from Langston University's Goat Program. You can learn more by looking that up along with their American Institute For Goat Research. They have good books you can buy about goat management. Since I live in a cold climate I mix low percent sweet feed and oats in large buckets together. For every two scoops of the sweet feed, I mix in one scoop of whole plain oats. Each goat gets a soup can or can and half. Then I go back down the line and give 3/4 soup can of plain whole oats that have a hand full of sunflower chips mixed into the big bucket I dip out of. Then I go back down the pens and give each goat 1/2 soup can of alfalfa pellets. When in deep arctic Winter I may also give Calf Manna top dressed, just a quarter to a half little soup can. None of my herd is being bred at this time and none is lactating. They are does I held back after ending my USDA meat production. That is working great for me. They did get more Alfalfa pellets when nursing and if needed for more milk production Calf Manna as well. For your herd what you should feed and how much will depend on your climate. What I feed here may be too much for a hot climate and could founder if too much was given. It will also depend on if the goat is bred or lactating. Langston University used to have free information that explained that products like oats and alfalfa are needed to help the goat break down the sugars and starches in sacked sweet feeds properly. If not a goat will not be able to process the feed and gets Listeria. Also, of course it is important for the ratios to be correct to prevent problems like Rickets.
Post by venadochivo on Jun 11, 2018 19:27:17 GMT -5
Goat Guru and Top Goat, I am very appreciative of your support and interest. I would love for you to take a look at the video I have of these animals. I think it could be revealing. I wonder if either of you might be willing to have me send a video link to your email address with the promise of never sending any thing else via email without your permission?
Post by venadochivo on Jun 11, 2018 19:30:38 GMT -5
By the way, my largest doe is quite mean. However, one of the kids that is limping is hers. It does not seem likely that she would mess with one of her own unless, of course, she was not paying attention. Sometimes at the food trough, she can get pretty aggressive.
I'm not sure that sending a video link to anyone is going to clarify what is going on. I have to agree with the posts that have recommended being checked by a vet who can examine the leg physically and feel for injury. If it was one goat with the issue, I would say it was a possible injury rather than a deficiency. With two showing similar symptoms, I would be inclined to have the vet examine them and possibly do some bloodwork to check for mineral deficiencies so appropriate treatment can be provided.
Private messages can be sent on this message board and links to videos. I imagine it is difficult for the animals to walk. I have never treated Rickets and other than correcting the imbalance of feed I wonder what the Vet would do for treatment. Maybe there is something that can be given to the animals so they are not left like that for life. Or maybe they will splint. If you would not mind, sharing what you learn would be much appreciated. You may help another person sometime with the same issues in their herd.
I have a thread made on here how to Splint/Cast a leg if you are told to do that it may help you. Plus if you check out U Tube many people show how to splint young goat and lamb legs. I would check with a Vet on what they think you should do to help your kids for treatment.