Post by stewieshumanmom on Feb 15, 2014 13:59:16 GMT -5
We have a set of twins that the mother suddenly stopped nursing at 2 1/2 weeks old. One began having tremors, its head was pulling backwards onto his back, he couldn't stand, was very weak, diarrhea. I gave him Karo syrup, started milk replacer, and gave d50 lactated ringer bolus x 24 hours to rehydrate. he seemed to get better, stronger, head stopped pulling back, tremors stopped, he refuses to nurse a bottle but he will drink some from a bowl and he eats hay and sweet feed/grain. He done well for a week then last night I came home to find him doing the same thing, weakness, diarrhea, head pulling. Any ideas on if this maybe goat polio vs listeriosis, or something else entirely I should mention he is 4 lb, and we have no way of getting fresh goat milk other than literally holding the mother and forcing her to allow nursing and if this is the road we need to go how often and for how long because he bites and only takes small hits at her but takes 30 minutes or more to seem satisified. he also stands hunched up with his back legs really close to his front
Were these kids born premature? 4 lbs seems pretty small for a kid that age unless maybe they are a mini breed??
Is there any sign of fever? Nasal discharge that might indicate pneumonia?
White muscle disease MIGHT be a possible diagnosis, but I am somewhat stumped. Is the diarrhea bloody at all?
Has the diet changed? I assume they were getting milk from the doe and then switched to replacer....how much and how often and what replacer is being used? Overfeeding can also cause significant issues and result in death.
Post by stewieshumanmom on Feb 15, 2014 22:23:31 GMT -5
they are pygmy, had a sub temp when symptoms first began, no nasal discharge but has a cough. no bloody diarrhea. no diet changes other than no longer receiving milk from mother and being put on replacer last weekend. definitely not overeating as he only takes sips from the bowl of milk will no suck on any nipples Ive tried. chews at hay no changes same hay since birth. all other goats doing well. his twin sister had same symptoms but we caught sooner and she is up doing great after karo syrup, warming up and starting replacer. since I posted we gave thiamine SQ, offered electrolytes which he took very little of and I have Pen G warming to room temp to give to cover listeriosis. only other thing im thinking is coccidiosis (sp?)funny thing is he got better for about 5 days then had a huge down turn again.
Could be a case of tetanus. Which also will cause the muscles of the jaw to lock up and make eating difficult as well as the other symptoms of the rigid neck pulled back, drooling, seizures and rocking horse stance. Kids can contract that through a wound or the fresh umbilical cord. I would give it a Tetanus Antitoxin shot. Split in two and given on both sides. In addition to that a while later a CD Antitoxin shot if you have any. If the kid is cold it can not digest the milk. It will sit in the tummy and go rancid. Then cause toxins that eat through the lining of the gut to get to the internal organs and kill the kid. When I get a hunchy butt kid after I warm it up I give it a little mixture of a crushed Lactaid pill, crushed Tum and 1.5 cc of human mineral oil in a little bit of water. Maybe just a couple of cc by mouth drenched. That will move the bad stuff out. I only use mineral oil because it does not need broken down and digested like other oils. A little while later I might mix up a teas of baking soda and some Bounce Back in a quarter cup of water and give a little of that. For a Boer baby I give 3cc by mouth every couple hours a few times. Your kid is pretty little so maybe 1.5 cc by mouth. I also give a tiny bit of Power Punch. If you milk the doe and freeze the milk in an ice cube tray you can thaw a cube when you need it if you want to avoid the problems with the powdered milk. You might try a Pritchard teat screwed on to a pop bottle. I cut the red tip end off and put a little hole in the top of it so it drips slow. Then I put it in the mouth and pull the bottle backwards to try to get the kid to latch. Some will get it right away and others take time. A kid that has a low core temperature can't latch though because it won't have a suck reflex. So making sure the kid is warm is very important before trying to feed it.
That's right it could be cold and hungry. The bad thing is that if this is a case of tetanus the kid won't be able to swallow, as it gets worse the kid won't be able to open his mouth. The biting and clamping down may not be intentional, but spasms caused by tetanus. He could start to foam and slobber and with tetanus they also get mild bloat. I suggest holding a hand under the throat to be sure the kid is swallowing when being fed. If you don't feel the milk being swallowed down and you try to feed it the lungs will fill and it will drown by aspiration. I hope it is just tummy trouble and nothing worse. I have had kids with sour milk they could not digest put the nose towards the belly where it hurt. Sometimes they would make little barking type noises too. I would then give CD Antitoxin over the ribs and the mineral oil mixture to move the stuff out. Sometimes I would just give 1.5cc of straight human mineral oil and the crushed lactaid pill or the cheaper Equate pill from WalMart. Works very well. Don't know if you can save this one but I give you credit for trying.
Post by stewieshumanmom on Feb 16, 2014 18:09:41 GMT -5
thank you, i will try those things. he made it thru another night. was very weak again this morning. gave Karo syrup thiamine and forced mom to feed. he felt good all day started going down a little while ago. gave Maria and forced mom to feed. he s Rt among in front of the heater sleeping now. any idea why he stays right in front if the heater?
Post by stewieshumanmom on Feb 16, 2014 20:40:39 GMT -5
we have been trying that but he fights and refuses to swallow more than 5cc or so. we have set up a temp pen on our porch put mom there with hear etc and we are literally just making her feed them. that seems to be working beats. I'm a nurse and I'm sure i could tube him but it sure makes me nervous
Post by Trubs MaMa on Feb 16, 2014 22:40:03 GMT -5
Stewie-You can do it. I am a nurse also and the first time I tubed a kid was much scarier than any human I ever tubed. If someone can hold the kids head while you run the tube, it is MUCH easier. Just use one hand to feel the throat (on the left side) as you advance the tube. You will feel the tube going down and know you are in the right place. B/4 starting, measure to the back of the ribs and mark the tube so you will know when you are in the stomach. Also search tube feeding baby goats online and you will find a video. Good luck!
Post by stewieshumanmom on Feb 16, 2014 22:57:33 GMT -5
goatmom, she is doing great no engorgement. she has raised babies before and done great. just went out to check in on them and let him nurse and found him splayed out unable to stand, head against his back, unable to control himself. literally throws himself from one side to the other and makes running motions with his feet. it looks very similar to a seizure. I'm lost as to what could possibly be going on with this goat.
Post by stewieshumanmom on Feb 16, 2014 23:00:04 GMT -5
@trubs thank u for the encouragement do you think i should tube even if he nurses great on the mother when she is forced to allow it. i made her nurse at 530 then went out again at 9 and he has went down hill. in so confused and agitated that i can't figure this out
Post by stewieshumanmom on Feb 16, 2014 23:04:22 GMT -5
GoatGuru, i think your right not sure I'm going to be able to save this one. I've brought 4 in he may be the first not to make it. heartbreaking but may be for the best and may be why Mom refused to nurse him. they say animals know