Post by Rose's Goats on Jan 12, 2008 17:29:26 GMT -5
Hello. I have a four-year-old Alpine doe who is not eating very much and is getting skinnier as a result. She eats only about 1/2 cup of Caprine Challenger feed and some hay every day. I give her lots of grain and hay but she doesn't eat it. She lost weight in the summer and I attributed it to her putting all of her resources into the two gallons of milk she gave a day. I dried her up in August and was able to get a little weight back on her. Now she is lethargic and thin. I worm her regularly and she has a mineral block and salt block to use. I gave her some Vitamin A and D paste a few days ago that I got from Hoegger Goat Supply. Her lungs sound clear and her mouth looks good. How do I tell if it is a deficiency or an infection? Thanks for any tips you can give me.
Post by Rose's Goats on Jan 13, 2008 9:18:39 GMT -5
Hello. Thanks for responding. The goat was wormed with a standard goat wormer that I got at the store. I followed the directions and she ate all of the wormer. It was a pelleted wormer. I haven't had her feces tested or tested for CAE. I don't have a vet who will come out in this area. I give her a mineral/salt block (the brown one) and some Sweetlix. I know we have a selenium deficiency in this area, but I think the minerals and the commercial feed would cure it. Her eyelids are pink and so are her gums. I don't know her temperature she doesn't feel hot or cold. I am going to watch her and see if she is chewing her cud. Do you think her lack of eating could be caused by an imbalance in rumen bacteria?
Post by bugsy123in on Jan 13, 2008 10:28:40 GMT -5
Highly possible. I would start this doe on some B complex (dosage would depend on the type you have) I like to get 500mg of thiamine in them with each dose (this will boost her appetite). A strong dose of CD ANTITOXIN will regulate her rumen (i've just started using this but I believe the dose would be atleast 6cc can be given orally) as well as some probios or yogurt. You say her eye lids are pink, is that a light pink or a deep almost red tint?? If it's light I would worm her with a dose of ivermec. You can use the horse paste type just triple her weight. Check for a temp also if she has no temp odds are it is not an infection needing antibiotics.
When my heavy milking La Mancha is producing she gets an old wormer tube full of yogurt twice a day (favorite is strawberry) as well as 1 chewable childrens vitamin twice a day to help her keep up with the task of milking.
rosebart, not all worms are blood sucker like HC. you will not see pale membranes with tapes for example. if the animals is heavily invested, it will lead to weight loss too. you don't need a vet to come out. collect some berries and bring it to the vet. they should be able to do a fecal check for you. where are you located?
CD antitoxin is a great item to use whenever the rumen is affected, it coats the rumen and helps stops further upset to the rumen. At least 6cc should be given, I personally would give her a dose at 20cc (can give orally), then get her on the B Complex (if it is the regular b complex it is 1 cc per 3 pounds, if it is the fortified B complex it is 1cc per 20 pounds, can be given orally.) The thiamine & vitamin C are great suggestions. I would also get her on some Vitamin A & D.
I am leaning towards a minerals imbalance, as salt blocks (the red one is mineralized) are not sufficient for goats. A goats tongue is to soft and small to consume enough minerals from the salt lick, and the salt lick also doesn't have the right balance of minerals for the goats. I highly recommned Sweetlix 16:8 meatmaker. Remove all other forms of salt and feed only the loose minerals. Salt is added to the loose minerals to make them more platable to the goats. Being you are in a selenium deficient state, you may also need to give her a shot of BoSe or get some Selenium Vitamin E gel from like jeffers. www.jefferslivestock.com The minerals will take quite a while to adjust the goats system. I seen results in about 1 month with my herd once I put them on Sweetlix. Please do let us know what color pink her inner eyelids are, should be bright bright pink to flaming red in color. How does her hair feel? Dry or coarse? How do you hooves look, normal growth? How about her color has it faded at all lately?
i do not agree to the information given here. cd antitoxin does not coat the rumen. it is used to keep the epsilon toxins under control that are overgrowing in a compacted rumen due to over eating. amtitoxin is given sq to be affective. sure, som b vitamins can be given orally. if a goat is comromised and for example has polioencephalitis, thiamine or fortified b complex id needs to be given sq as well to be effective. here is a very good info why www.dairygoatjournal.com/issues/85/85-4/Karin_Christensen.html
Hi Susanne, Almost any drug that can be given by injection to a goat, can be given orally (sometimes at a higher dose than by injection) as they have a high metabolism and their bodily readily puts it to use. The time between an injection taking affect and it given orally is very minimal. Sometimes the injections are not worth that minimal amount of time due to the stress they cause. Only meds that shouldn't be given orally are antibiotics, except for penicillin when you are battling entero or other extreme rumen upset. The CD Antitoxin while it is coating the rumen is expelling the toxins. When I say coating, I mean it is like when you take Pepto Bismol, it doesn't just go down in one spot, it coats the entire stomach. Hope that makes more sense.
cheryl that does not make sense at all. have you read the article from karin? i think she explains very nice why B1 needs to be given SQ. here is the passage
Thiamin is not stored in the body and is quickly depleted under high energy requirements. It is one B vitamin which must be continuously supplied. Therefore, if conditions in the rumen cause a destruction of thiamin the goat rapidly becomes deficient. When a ruminant develops PEM, any thiamin given orally will be degraded by the presence or high activity of thiaminase in the rumen. To correct a thiamine deficiency, B1 must, therefore, be given as an injection.
antitoxin is recommended to administer sq/iv as well . how can this coat the rumen? also remember to re vaccinate the animal after 30 days whenever you treated a goat with c&d antitoxin
Post by Rose's Goats on Jan 14, 2008 11:14:38 GMT -5
Hello. I watched the goat all day yesterday and she isn't chewing her cud. I am going to start giving her yogurt and get some Probios. The goats will also start getting Sweetlix Meatmaker in loose form. I vaccinated all the goats with 5 mL of CDT yesterday as part of my routine vaccinations. Maybe that will help. I am going to get some thiamine to give her and the others. I will also worm them again with Ivermec. The Vitamin E and Selenium gel sounds interesting and I will have to get some of that also.
Her coat is dull and coarse, and she holds her tail down. She doesn't play with the other goats, just stands in the corner. Her eyelids and gums are bright pink. I put her in her own stall yesterday (which made my younger goats overjoyed to now be stuck in with the older meanies!) and she ate all of her grain as well as some softened alfalfa cubes. She eats very slowly, so I think part of her problem is that I haven't been able to keep her by herself. The other goats she was with eat all the food before she was getting any.
I am located in Upstate NY, in the Adirondack Mountains. The closest vet won't do house-calls and doesn't like working with goats. The vet who I can beg to come out lives 50 miles away and charges $150 just to get out of the car. Thus why I am trying to fix this on my own.
Anybody know how to test for worms at home? I work in a research lab so I have access to all types of equipment. I can get a microscope if I need one. There's got to be a "quick and dirty" way to do it at home.
Post by Rose's Goats on Jan 14, 2008 11:30:58 GMT -5
PS: I gave the goat some Vitamin A,D,E,B12 gel the other day. I gave the recommended dosage. Should I give another dose? Also if I give the Selenium gel, will there be an overdose if the goat also gets feed and minerals with Selenium in them?