Post by tarheelman on Oct 22, 2007 15:10:42 GMT -5
My doe kidded last Thursday and had somewhat of a rough time. She had triplets but one was still born (very premature) and a second one is a "runt". She also did not pass all the afterbirth within 12 hours or so. So I called my vet and he said the "cords" would dry up and she would pass them. My fear was that there would be infection , but he said it would do more harm than good for him to try to force the issue. Sure enough, she finally passed everything by late Saturday and seems to be doing fine now as are her two kids. This is her second set of twins, but now I am concerned about re-breeding her based on the issues she had this time. We have been very dry here and some of the cattlemen are having trouble with their calving as well. Is this just a result of the dry conditions maybe? Should I be concerned about breeding her in the future?
Minerals are huge with kidding. What are you feeding in the way of minerals. Just an FYI for everyone, if you have a doe not passing her placenta at a decent rate, take a rubber glove and fill partially with water and tie it to the placenta, the added weight will help pull it out. But DO NOT on your own pull it, you can tear the uterus.
The doe (Bernice) will be two in December and is a purebred Boer. She has free choice access to mineral and salt blocks. I also feed once a day standard Goat and Kid feed from Southern States Cooperative that is also medicated with decoxx?? for coccidiosis. She is on fescue pasture and free choice hay. I've had four other does that have kidded in the past two weeks with no issues on the same regime.
I thought about tying the cord in knots to help give some weight, but Bernice is a little skittish and I did not want to risk pulling too hard.
Great idea about the glove, Cheryl, I usually use a small rock, Just be sure to only use a very small weight. You only want a very gentle pull. You have your answer, minerals/vitamins is the problem. I would reajust my mineral program to see what I was missing. The fescue could also be a problem, I have heard that it can cause a problem in female (horses, and goats ) animals at birthing time. But I would work on the mineral first. Good Luck Linda
Last Edit: Oct 23, 2007 2:04:44 GMT -5 by Brandywine
I may be wrong here, but what about selenium?? I know that's all wrapped up in the mineral discussion, but here we feed the sweet lix (and a good sheep mineral to my ewes) If someone doesn't pass their afterbirth right away I give 1 cc of selenium and it's out in a matter of hours then. Was wondering what the link might be there and if maybe a dose of BO-SE might be in order to assist with the mineral program.
Selenium deficiency plays a big role in retaining placentas. We used to have trouble with retained placentas in our does, and ever since we started giving BoSe prior to kidding, we have not had one single doe retain the placenta.
Oxytocin is not necessarily recommended at 12 ours post kidding...24 hours or more, I would say yes, but 12 hours is not an unusual period for the placenta to still be hanging, particularly with a difficult delivery as described.
If she were mine, I would breed her again. I would also switch to a loose mineral mix as they are able to utilize loose minerals much better than they can in block form.
Post by tarheelman on Oct 23, 2007 13:51:30 GMT -5
I got the tag from my pellet feed and it contains Selenium at .060 ppm. I have had my goats for over a year and one of my weaker areas is nutrition. So is this level of Selenium adequate? Being new to this site, I have already heard about Sweetlix and will consider that product in the future.
I am watching her closely for infection. She's a good healthy doe, so I'm hoping she'll do okay.
Minerals are your biggest problem. Goats must have loose minerals made just for goats and no other form of salt can be given. Blocks are too hard for goats, they have small soft tongues and do not consume enough to do them good. Sweetlix Meatmaker 16:8 is the best on the market (read back over the anemia posts) You will see improvements where you never thought you even had a problem. Copper and Selenium are your two biggest culprits with goats, also iodine in a lot of states. Before I learned that I was making a huge mistake feeding salt blocks I started having kidding issues, ie 1 retained placenta, longer labors, weaker kids, kids with goiters etc. Once I got them on Sweetlix my next kidding season was fantastic and so have the rest with the exception of Sadie holding on to her placenta 13 hours (but this even isn't bad). My kids are stronger, brighter and much healthier. The does pass the placentas quickly and rebred quickly, normally when the kids are 2 months old (I make them take breaks though). No more goiters or weak legs. I also have not had to give any more BoSe shots. My dull white coats when to bright white and my colors when from dull to nice and deep colors again. Hoof growth is excellent and I have little problems with worms. The Sweetlix minerals I feed have minimum of 50 ppm (yours is way too low) and copper in it is1750-1810 ppm. Iodine is 450ppm. Maximum of 12% salt, most other loose minerals have way too much salt in them, thus making it so the goats don't consume as much as they need. Purina is a bad one for that, they are like 30% salt. www.sweetlix.com/products/product_display.php?recordID=46
Your doe will pass a nasty reddish/brownish colored mucus/goo for up to 1 month, this is normal, but it should not smell putrid.
A note on Oxytocin, it is not a good idea to give after 4 hours past kidding, after this time the cervix has normally fully closed and you will cause the doe painful contractions that are not helping pass the placenta.
Post by tarheelman on Oct 24, 2007 16:03:05 GMT -5
Due to my fat finger typing and poor eyesight, the selenium in my pellets is .60 ppm which is comparable to the Sweetlix. I looked at their website last night and compared the nutrition tags. The Sweetlix does have more trace minerals (i.e. iodine). The only problem is that it is not readily available in my area per their dealer listing (roughly 50 miles in the backwoods). How much is a 25lb bag? The website indicated that based on the proper ration that the Sweetlix is very economical.
Bernice still seems to be doing fine along with her kids. We've had rain today for the first time in month and the mothers are a little stir crazy as they have been in the barn/shed waiting out the rain the better part of the day. But at least they should have some green grass to graze for a while if it doesn't turn too cold.
Hi David, The Selenium amount in Sweetlix is 50.00 ppm not .50 ppm so there is a huge difference there. As for price it depends on where you live. I pay 14.99 for 25 pounds, others on here pay well under that. You would need to see if you could get your feed store to order some in. Once I got my feedstore to order it, they keep it stocked as now they sell a large amount of it. They are well worth their price, as they make a HUGE difference in the goats. I had problems I didn't even realize I had until I seen the changes in my goats. If the minerals are not in the right amounts goats don't receive the proper amounts. It takes some minerals to make the other minerals asorbable. (I hope that makes sense, I tend to confusion myself explaining things, lol)
Congrats on the rain. We are finally having some sunshine here in Eastern Washington. It has been raining off and on for the past few days. For the month of Oct we have picked up over 3 inches of rain in our area. It has made it a mucky mess, but the pastures are green again :0 to bad it is too chilly to get the grass growing really well.
Post by tarheelman on Oct 26, 2007 14:04:55 GMT -5
The rain is almost over. We've had nearly 6 inches in three days and my girls are going stir crazy. I promised them that tomorrow that they can go out and play. I hope that the weatherman is right about it clearing off or I'm in trouble.
Bernice still appears to be doing okay as are her kids. So good so far. I'm going to try to get my hands on a bag of Sweetlix over the weekend and try it out. The biggest thing may be getting my local feed guy to carry it although he's usually pretty good at getting stuff if you ask real nice ($$).
Glad to hear she is doing good, I would say you are out of the woods and don't need to worry about an infection any longer, as she should have shown signs by now.
You won't regret getting the Sweetlix. In about 10-14 days you will see some signs of improvement I am betting. Other changes you won't notice for awhile, especially the color, if they have lost some color.