My 18 month old nubian doe has a thick layer of mucusy looking drool around her mouth and is holding her mouth open a little constantly. She was like that all day yesterday and still this morning. She just stands in one spot and when she does move she staggers. She doesn't even want me to pet her. I do not have any idea what is wrong. I checked her eyelids and they are pink. We have given her some probiotic powder and I think my husband gave her some vit-b last night. We have also seperated her from the other does in case whatever she has is contagious. Does anyone know what could be wrong with her?
Post by garysfarmer on Aug 29, 2010 8:47:23 GMT -5
Here's some additional info; BRB
Listeriosis - caused by the bacteria Listeria monocytogenes, found in soil, water, plant litter, silage and goat's digestive tract. Brought on by feeding silage, sudden changes in kind of feed, parasitism, dramatic weather changes and advanced stages of pregnancy. Symptoms - Depression, decreased appetite, fever, leaning or stumbling or moving in one direction only, head pulled to flank with rigid neck, facial paralysis on one side, slack jaw, and drooling, abortions. Treatment - Administration of Procaine penicillin every six hours for three to five days, then daily for an additional seven days.
Polioencephalomalcia (Goat Polio) - a Thiamine (Vitamin B 1) deficiency. From improper feeding, particularly feeding too much grain and too little roughage. Symptoms - Excitability, "stargazing", uncoordinated staggering and/or weaving, drunkenness, circling, diarrhea, muscle tremor, head against wall, and apparent blindness. As it progresses, convulsions and high fever may occur, and if untreated, the animal generally dies within 24-72 hours. Treatment - Thiamine is the only effective therapy, and treatment can result in improvement in as little as two hours, if the disease is caught early enough. Dosage is related to body weight: Daily treatment for 5 days and then weekly as required. Goat Polio (Polioencephalomalacia) and Listeriosis (Listeria monocytogenes) are metabolic diseases with similar symptoms that require very different treatments. The goat producer must be alert to the subtle differences in order to know how to treat the sick animal. In most cases, both of these diseases are seen in goats raised under intensive management conditions. Improper feeding, particularly feeding too much grain and too little roughage, is a significant factor in both diseases. Producers pushing the animal to gain weight too fast can induce this often fatal disease in their goats. Sudden changes in feed can also cause the onset of this disease. Polioencephalomalacia (also known as Cerebrocortical Necrosis) is thiamine (Vitamin B 1) deficiency. Any change in the rumen's environment that suppresses normal flora activity can lead to decreased thiamine production. Too much grain decreases the pH of the rumen, predisposing the animal to Goat Polio. Thiamine must be present in order for glucose to be metabolized. If thiamine is either not present or exists in an altered form (thiaminase), then brain cells die and severe neurological symptoms appear. Causes of thiamine deficiency include feeding moldy hay or grain, overdosing with amprollium (CoRid) when treating for coccodiosis, feeding molasses-based grains (horse & mule feeds), ingesting some species of ferns, sudden changes in diet, the dietary stress of weaning, and reactions to de-wormers Thiabendazole and Levamisole. Each of these can interfere with Vitamin B1 production. Even the usage of antibiotics destroys flora in the rumen and can lead to thiamine deficiency. This is why it is so important to repopulate the gut with live bacteria after using antibiotics or scour medications. Goat Polio is generally seen most often in weanlings and young adults , in contrast to Listeriosis, which most frequently affects adult goats. An increase in Goat Polio occurs in North America during winter, when the availability of forage and quality hay is low and producers start feeding increased amounts of grain. Symptoms of Polioencephalomalacia are excitability, "stargazing," uncoordinated staggering and/or weaving (ataxia), circling, diarrhea, muscle tremors, and apparent blindness. Initial symptoms can look like Entertoxemia (overeating disease). There is a component of "overeating" involved in that the rumen flora has been compromised. As the disease progresses, convulsions and high fever occur, and if untreated, the goat generally dies within 24-72 hours. Diagnosis is available via laboratory tests, but the producer does not have the luxury of the time that such tests take. Thiamine is the only effective therapy, and treatment can result in improvement in as little as two hours, if the disease is caught early enough. Thiamine is a veterinary prescription but very inexpensive. Producers should always keep thiamine on hand. Dosage is related to body weight; 10 mg/kg should be given every six hours for at least 24 hours. (One kilogram equals 2.2 pounds.) Initially, IV dosage is best, but SQ or IM can be used. Some producers even give thiamine orally after the initial treatment. If thiamine is unavailable but the producer has multiple B vitamins on hand, make sure the dosage is based upon the amount of thiamine in the multiple B vitamins. The key to overcoming Goat Polio is early diagnosis and treatment. Complete recovery is
Post by garysfarmer on Aug 29, 2010 8:53:27 GMT -5
I copied this post from a forum board somewhere;
1st person; I have several goats about 10 months old and this morning when I woke up and checked on them I noticed that 4 of them were getting sick, 1 of them was dead. The 4 that are sick can barely stand up, they are staggering, grinding their teeth and vomitting. I read in a goat book and from what I can see it looks like a plant or tree poison, And I tried to put 2 tsps of salt on the back of their tongue to help induce vommiting. I was wondering if anyone else has any ideas that I can try
2nd persson They are already vomiting you do not need to induce it. Try to be sure they are drinking plenty of water, change it often as they will "pollute" it when they drink. You might try giving Pepto Bismol at 1 cc per 10 pounds every 6 to 8 hours. You can also go to any drug store and get activated charcoal poisoning remedy and give this. You can try either of these homemade poisonous plant remedies:
Recipe for Rhododendron Poisoning.
Ingredients: 15 mls Renco (rennet) 15 mls Mylanta (milk of magnesia) 5 mls brandy Mix all together This is the adult dose! For kids under 4 months give 5 mls each of Renco and Mylanta and 2 mls brandy, for kids over 4 months give 10 mls of both Renco and Mylanta and 5 mls brandy. Treat goatlings as adults. Renco is the tradename for junket rennet and you can buy it in any supermarket. It is good for a variety of gastric ailments in goats, and it works even when it is well past its UseBy date, so don't chuck it out just because you can't use it for junket or cheese any more. The action of the rennet is to neutralise the toxins from the rhododendron. Mylanta is the trade name for milk of magnesia. Sometimes you'll find it in a supermarket but more often you have to go to a chemist. Again, it is useful for a number of stomach upsets in goats (as well as humans).
Its action is twofold: it puts a lining on the gut, and it regulates the pulsing of the gut (peristalsis), which often gets out of kilter with poisoning or colic.
The brandy works, but I haven't yet found out why. It is a fortified spirit so has a high alcohol percentage and you don't need much. Alternatively you can use sherry, which is a fortified wine. They are both made from grapes, and work better for medicinal purposes than spirits or wines made from grain or other substances. I got 100 mls of bulk brandy from my local Liquorland. The staff were highly amused when I told them what it was for, although I admit I have nicked the odd tablespoonful for making fruit mince.
It is usual for goats with rhododendron poisoning to vomit rather spectacularly, everything within a 5 metre radius is likely to be covered in green slime. For this reason it is difficult to drench them with an antidote because it is easy for things to go down the wrong hole and either drown the goat within minutes or cause inhalation pneumonia which isn't treatable in the farm situation. That is why I like this recipe because the amounts are small, and you can take 15 minutes over the drenching, a ml or two at a time between sickies, if you have to. One dose is usually sufficient. I've never heard of anyone having to give two although if the goat did not show improvement within an hour after dosing, one could consider a repeat.
It is important to keep the goat warm, but not in the sun, and out of the wind. Have a bucket of fresh warm water available for the animal to drink, and each time it gets fouled by vomit (which has stuck to the face hair) empty and refill it, otherwise the goat will just be drinking up more poison. A goat which is vomiting all over the place is getting rid of the toxins much more efficiently than one which is not, so vomiting is good.
Once the goat is feeling better, offer a mixture of yummies, a handful of various weeds like yarrow, cleavers, dock, prairie grass or twitch, some green pine needles, tree lucerne (tagasaste), willow, and some good plain hay or straw. Don't give much at a time as anything which is fouled will have to be thrown away, so why waste it by being over-generous?
Some other evergreens such as camellias will give similar symptoms to rhododendron, though not usually so severe, and the goat may not vomit. The recipe will work pretty well on most forms of poisoning, including toadstool spores. It also does a good job as a first-aid measure in organo-phosphate poisoning until you can bring goat and vet together. I suggest sticking both recipes on the wall beside your telephone so you always know where they are, and you have immediate access if someone else phones you in a panic.
Another person's Recipe for Rhododendron Poisoning;
Quantities do not need to be too exact.
Ingredients: ¼ cup cooking oil ½ cup strong/strong cold tea (6 to 8 tea bags removed) ["English" tea] 1 teaspoon ground ginger 1 teaspoon baking soda MIX ALL TOGETHER and drench the goat with it all.
How does this work? Oil puts a lining on the stomach preventing more poison going into the system, tea is the antidote, and ginger relieves pain, baking soda helps bring up the gas.
Can tell I am nervous and want to go back out, I keep forgetting things and have to make 3 or 4 posts. I also wanted to thank you for the help. I greatly appreciate it. Gonna go back out and check on her now.
Is she running a fever at all? Scouring? Eating? Urinating? Is she chewing a cud at all? If she is not eating, cudding, pooping, etc., she is at risk of her rumen shutting down so she needs to be eating something to keep things going. If the rumen shuts down, they nearly always end up dying so this is very important to keep in mind. Will she walk at all? Moving her around will be good for her too. Lots of things to keep in mind while figuring out what is going on with her.
Post by garysfarmer on Aug 29, 2010 9:53:04 GMT -5
Good to see you goatmom!
You and Doug may have to tag team this, one checking the forum the other checking the goat. Here's a pretty detailed article, btw is she drinking?
This article doesn't mention drooling but I did read one that did. I think this one came from Onion Creek Ranch;
MENINGEAL DEEWORM INFECTION IN GOATS 1. Goat producers who live in areas where whitetail deer are abundant should be concerned about Meningeal Deerworm infection in their goats. Rainfall, swampy ground, and leaf litter compound the problems but the presence of white-tail deer are the key. Sometimes called deerworm or brainworm, the parasite Parelaphostrongulus tenuis uses the whitetail deer as its host and passes through the deer's body without harming it. But with goats, the deerworm seems to "get lost" and winds up in the spinal canal . . . causing hind leg weakness and unsteadiness, progressing to hind leg dragging, inability to walk in a straight line, rear end wobbling from side to side, tremors, inability to stand, and paralysis. Once the larvae migrate over the body, the goat oftentimes but not always experiences intense itching and may begin chewing holes in its hide. There may be multiple small patches or one large patch of leathery skin, often behind the front leg of the body and moving up to the neck area. Shaving the hair off the sites where itching and chewing are occurring will usually reveal a straight line of hard nodules leading from the spine over which the skin has thickened. These are the subcutaneous larvae migrating throughout the goat's body. If the producer diagnoses the problem before paralysis occurs, full recovery is possible. Goats who develop Meningeal Deerworm infection get it by ingesting the intermediate host, a slug or snail, while browsing in wet areas, such as ponds or swamps, or under dead leaves, branches, and trees. Warm weather in early winter and the resulting lack of snow cover has made this disease common in the eastern part of the United States. Goat producers who raise alpacas, llamas, or related ruminants may find that these camelids are even more susceptible to Meningeal Deerworm disease than goats or sheep. The producer should suspect Meningeal Deerworm disease if the goat displays neurologic signs or any problem involving the spinal cord, from leg dragging to inability to get up. The disease can be a slow progression of symptoms or can strike suddenly. Pneumonia is a common secondary problem, since the goat is down and therefore inactive. The infected goat does not seem to be in pain, other than the itching; most goats eat and drink until death occurs. Treatment involves very high dosages of Ivomec Plus or generic equivalent. Ivermectin paste or pour-on are not effective. Ivomec Plus or generic equivalent is recommended because if snails or slugs are present, so may also be liver flukes, and Ivomec Plus will handle both conditions at the same time. Ivomec Plus should be given at a rate of 1 cc per 25 pounds bodyweight for at least seven days, followed by a double-the-cattle dosage of fenbendazole (Safeguard/ Panacur) for five days. (Jeffers carries both dewormers.) Dosing too low means that the deerworm continues to do damage. Enough medication needs to remain in the goat's system so that the blood-brain barrier can be crossed in order to kill the larvae that have already penetrated the spinal column. If the goat is down and can't get up on its own, the chance for recovery is not good. An anti-inflammatory drug like Banamine can be useful in alleviating the inflammation of nerve tissue. Dexamethozone should also be used if paralysis is present, dosing at approximately 8 cc per 100 lbs bodyweight and stepping down one cc per day. Dex should be given into the muscle (IM). If the sick goat is a pregnant doe, use the dexamethasone and let her abort, because she isn't likely to survive if she is trying to grow fetuses while fighting this disease. If the producer is concerned about using Dexamethasone and Banamine at the same time, then use the Dex and forget the Banamine. When symptoms are found in one goat, the producer should either treat the entire herd or watch everyone closely daily for symptoms and begin treatment immediately if discovered. This treatment, if utilized early in the disease, can stop its progression but cannot undo any nerve damage. Permanent spinal damage (including curvature), weakness in the hindquarters, and/or inability to deliver kids may be the residual effect of Meningeal Deerworm infection. Once the spinal cord is damaged, treatment can only do so much and the goat will never be back to full health. Producers should let at least one month pass before becoming convinced that the animal has been successfully treated. In the northern and eastern parts of the United States, most infections occur in late summer/early fall or early winter, following a wet summer and mild fall. The larval migration of P. tenuis can take from ten days to over three months. If weather conditions produce wet ground, leaf litter or other slug habitat, and temperatures above 55*F, then meningeal deerworm is likely to appear six weeks after the first warm day and exist for the same number of days that the warm temperatures lasted. Said another way, if two weeks of warm weather occurs in November, watch for the appearance of meningeal deerworm in January. During these timeframes, some producers are using Ivomec Plus or its generic equivalent monthly for up to four months during the at-risk seasons. Although laboratory testing of the cerebrospinal fluid produces an accurate diagnosis, the key to treatment of Meningeal Worm infection is early aggressive treatment. If all indications tell the producer that the goat is infected with P. tenuis, forget the testing and get on with treatment. Prevention is difficult. The only proven preventative medication is administering Ivomec Plus or its generic equivalent monthly during slug and snail season. Because slugs and snails travel, ponds, swamps, and leafy wooded areas should be fenced off at least 200 yards from the areas to avoid so goats cannot become exposed to slugs and snails. Test for existence of slugs and snails by putting dry dog food in a small plastic cup, place it on the ground, and cover it with a bucket or box. Check the bucket or box at sunrise and sundown. If you find slugs, you have a potential Meningeal Deerworm problem in play. Treatment can be unsuccessful, even when the disease is caught in its early stages. Prevention is the key to avoiding this devastating disease.