Along with my conversation about my kid with the "poops" I discussed with my vet ( old timer from Ohio State focuses mainly on farm animals as practice) which direction to go to wether my two boys who are just now 7 weeks of age. Again this is area where there is much debate and controversey and no real concensus.. He said he prefers to do it young and suggested I not wait much longer to do this. When asked about banding vs. him snipping he said that snipping was best.. He did not advocate banding especially when animals are older. I went ahead and set up appointment for him to do the snip method this Friday after I get off work. He stated that banding takes too long as cords are bigger/thicker and takes longer for healing when they are older/bigger and that flies really may be more of an issue. I just hate that regardless these little guys will be traumatized. He snipped my pygmy wether at a very young age and that was nearly 7 years ago and he has been fine. What does everyone think on this.
I banded my boy this year (at 2 weeks old) and had no problems. He did a cute little stampy dance the first couple of days, but did not appear to be in any pain. I gave him a little Motrin so I felt better though. :0)
Post by Rose's Goats on Jun 3, 2009 12:19:16 GMT -5
Yes, usually people wether their male goats in order to selectively breed their females. If you have lots of unneutered bucks running around in your herd you have the risk of not knowing when and with who your does are bred. Wethering limits the possibilities.
Also wethering is a great tool to use when you have male kids that don't have good genetics. I wether my less desirable males before they are breeding age and grow them up until they are ready for butchering or get sold as pets. Wethers make excellent pets and do not have the "bucky" smell that male goats can get.
I band most of my kids at 5-7 weeks old. The reason I band is because it is easy for me to do myself and it doesn't cost the $150 that a vet would cost to come to do it.
I have done both, but prefer to band. I like to band when they are about 2 1/2 to 3 months old. The vet said that the male parts (trying to be correct in not saying the P word) grows as the kid grows and the longer you can wait the better it is for the goat. They are less likely to get urinary calculi because the urethra is longer and wider. He's the one who took me step by step through the cutting process, which is a whole lot eaiser and less painful if done at a very early age. But, I sell a lot of my bucks as bucks and the rest I wether for pets, so I can't really cut them if I can sell them. I have never had any problems with the banding. I do make sure the kid is up on tetanus before I band. And I have never had a problem with flies. (I think I live in the fly capitol of the world right now). It usually takes about 2 weeks for the sack to drop off. I also agree with Rose about being able to do it yourself, banding is easier to do with two people, but you can do it by yourself if no one is around. I really think that it depends on what each person prefers to do and feels comfortable with. The more you do it one way, the better you feel about doing it. You might feel better with your vet doing it or you might try banding yourself. Good luck with whatever you pick.
I band all males not to be used for breeding stock, with no problems at all but I do keep a close eye on them , it is not painfull at all, seems to me it would be less painfull than cutting, put a rubber band on your finger , does it hurt? then try cutting it off? (LOL)
Who turned on the eletric fence without telling me? X#!
We have always surgically castrated and done it ourselves without the vet. We normally do it the same day we disbud so bucks are done around 7 to 10 days old. In over 30 years of having goats, we have not had major problems with urinary calculi...I had 1 wether that I lost to UC a few years ago and my mom has had 1 at her house. We started with goats when I was about 10 (now almost 45...yikes).
We found that doing it earlier was much easier on them. They don't bleed at all when done this young...maybe a drop or two where we cut off the bottom of the scrotum, but that's it. We do not cut out the testicles though...cut off the bottom of the scrotum, clamp one testicle with the hemastats and pull the other. Then unclamp and pull the second testicle. Coat with Wonder Dust or blood stop powder and return baby to mama in a clean stall with nice fresh straw and have never had a problem with infection, etc. We remove the bottom of the scrotum to provide good drainage if needed.
Post by angelsprite on Jun 3, 2009 23:25:38 GMT -5
My take on banding is simple. I'm selling the goats anyway. If I don't band, my boys may have a chance of being billy goats somewhere. If I band, they will eventually end up at a slaughterhouse, period. Darn few people keep an animal all it's life if it can breed or be bred. Even if you sell that wether for a pet, the people who buy it will eventually sell it or give it away and it would be a miracle if that goat wasn't walking into a slaughterhouse before it turned 3 years old. That's the reality for goats. By not banding, I give my boys a sporting chance. I haven't noticed any people who want to buy goats wanting only wethers. They do tend to ask for billy goats though, and several people have had to come to me for a buck because everyone else around here bands everything. I don't delude myself into thinking that a buck doesn't feel pain. Just because I don't feel what he's feeling doesn't mean he's not feeling any pain. It only means I'm not feeling his pain. With as much trouble as it seems many people have with their baby goats, I can't imagine doing one more thing to mine that will put them under stress or in pain. And if I were banding my boys, it would not be because I didn't think they were in pain. It would be because I really didn't CARE what pain I caused them.
The only wether I've ever had, I bought with a band that had just been put on the day before by someone else. I wouldn't have bought him if he hadn't come with the doe. The next morning, when I woke up, he was dying of toxic shock from the banding. I had a vet friend coming to castrate a client's horse. I had the vet take a look and despite everything we did, that goat died of shock. I'm not sold on banding. Perhaps, if the goat hadn't been sold and stressed further, he would have been fine. Perhaps he would have died no matter what. The bottom line is, goats are individuals. Some will handle the pain of banding just fine. Others will die of shock or other complications as a result of it. Because the actual cause of death looks like something else, people can say they have never had any problems with banding, even though banding may have been the root cause of any problems they've had. With my goats, the way I keep the young bucks from breeding indiscriminately is to separate them from females. If they couldn't be separated, if I couldn't sell them, and if I had no other choice, I would castrate them, using anesthetic, just like a dog. But, if I couldn't sell them, I wouldn't breed them. Personally, I wouldn't do anything to one of my goats that I wouldn't do to one of my showdogs. For me, there is no ethical dilemma. To test whether something I'm considering doing to a goat is cruel, I can ask myself, 'Would I do that to one of my Collies?' If I wouldn't, it must be cruel. I wouldn't neuter my dog that way, so I wouldn't neuter a goat that way. Banding is an old practice. It's been done for hundreds, if not thousands of years. The Nez Pierce Indians banded their appaloosas. Back then, those natives didn't have anesthetics or they might very well have used them. Other ancient peoples did not have the wonderful variety of safe anesthetics that we have today. It's not 1809. It's the year 2009. Choosing to band without the benifit of anesthetic isn't something the goat would choose. It's just what the owner chooses to save a buck. I want to save a buck too, so I just don't band. (That's a pun, haha.)
Post by angelsprite on Jun 6, 2009 21:15:48 GMT -5
Ctown, Nope. I only write research reports, etc. Nothing that ever would get any attention. I've thought of writing a goat book though, since there seems to be a dearth of them on the market. Not so much a goat care book, but more a story book about getting hooked on goats and not being able to get unhooked. Goats are worse than heroine for getting addicted to, I swear.