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callen022471
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Another dead kid...
« Thread Started on May 13, 2009, 6:28pm »
Well I came home from work today to find Lil'bit - my three week old buckling - taking his last breaths... I spent hours trying to save this baby - so naturally I am gutted - but trying not to beat myself up because I am not sure I could have done any more than I did. Yesterday he seemed to be doing OK - was still nursing from his Mom - managing to get across the field although his legs were still weak and splinted. This morning I thought he looked a little weaker maybe - but it was very early and I put it down to him being asleep when I got in the stall. Having fixed pneumonia, given him BoSe, frequent Nutridrench and made sure Mom was getting plenty of vitamins/minerals and good feed I am wondering what finally took him. I lost the one other kid I had this season two weeks earlier in just the same way - looked mostly fine in the morning - was floppy and weak and dying when I came home. I thought the first one must have been Clostridium or similar - the doe was new to me and I am not sure if she had her CDT shot. Lil'bits Mom had her initial CDT shots last fall and a booster about 2 weeks before he was born (I wasn't sure of her due date). Did I leave her booster shot too late? I am concerned because I have two ewes due to lamb in the next month and I don't want to lose lambs as well! They had their CDT boosters about a month ago now... I think I shall probably take LilBit to the Department of Ag for a necropsy - but would welcome any insight...
Thanks again to everyone who helped me keep Lilbit with us for three more weeks than he should have had...
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Brandywine
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Re: Another dead kid...
« Reply #1 on May 13, 2009, 7:44pm »
Hugs from TEXAS. So sorry for this loss.
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Branevi Farms
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missourigal
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Re: Another dead kid...
« Reply #2 on May 13, 2009, 9:00pm »
Sorry for your loss
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missourigal
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callen022471
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Re: Another dead kid...
« Reply #3 on May 15, 2009, 4:11pm »
Thanks for the commiserations guys...and here's the kind of good news. The vet at our diagnostics lab called to tell me that Lilbit had a congenital defect where his ureters were not connected to his bladder and that that caused urine to back up into his kidneys - obviously leading to his demise. It's only good news in that it makes me feel better for knowing that I had done all that I could - and that the little guy didn't suffer too long. On reflection I am wondering if he was peeing out of his belly button until it healed up - because I did see him pee - many times - and I would have thought this defect would have killed him much sooner otherwise... Anyway weird though this may sound - I am relieved! Now...do you think this means I shouldn't breed this doe to this buck again? She is the only doe I have bred to this buck - who I got as a 3 month old buckling...(I know - I am incorrigible - one solution breeds another question!! )
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bdillon
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Re: Another dead kid...
« Reply #4 on May 18, 2009, 4:39pm »
If the diagnostics lab provided the result - I would think they could provide a conjecture on whether it is hereditary or not.
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The girls are screaming again. Must be feeding time.
Brandywine
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Re: Another dead kid...
« Reply #5 on May 18, 2009, 10:19pm »
I would try the breeding again. Most everything deserves a second chance.
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Branevi Farms
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wisdomseeker07
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Re: Another dead kid...
« Reply #6 on May 19, 2009, 7:08am »
If it was peeing out of the belly button,it sounds as if it had had navel ill.I haven't been on here for a while so I may be wrong,just my thought.
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Rose's Goats
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Re: Another dead kid...
« Reply #7 on May 19, 2009, 7:25am »
I had a doe that peed out of her belly button last year. When she would get up from a nap a teaspoon of urine would leak out. She would also pee normally from her urethra. I took her to the vet and the vet cauterized the inside of the belly button with silver nitrate. The vet said it happened because when the baby was born the mom stepped on the umbilical cord and pulled it out of the baby. This left a hole where the umbilical cord goes into the body and the bladder was leaking through that hole. She said she has seen it happen on other animals for various reasons and the fix is to cauterize the inside of the belly button to force the urine out through the urethra.

It is definitely possible if his ureters weren't connected that his bladder was emptying through his navel. I would ask the vet if they think it is hereditary in any way. If they say yes, then neuter that buck ASAP.

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callen022471
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Re: Another dead kid...
« Reply #8 on May 19, 2009, 9:58am »
The vet told me that although in some breeds of dogs and cats there is evidence of something like this being hereditary she had not heard of it in goats or sheep - and that more likely it was a fault that happened during embryonic development. I just wondered if any of you all had had experience with something like this: although my diagnostic vet didn't think this was likely to be a hereditary thing she didn't rule it out and I figured this is the kind of thing goatwisdom people may have seen. So, I think I am going to try with this buck again in the fall. Obviously, if I see another problem like this, his breeding days will be over...I'll let you know next year!!! Thanks for all the replies guys
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angelsprite
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Re: Another dead kid...
« Reply #9 on May 22, 2009, 12:38am »
Callen,
Sorry to hear of your loss. The condition is called a patent urachus. I check every animal born for it. Patent Urachus can occur in every mammalian species, including humans. It isn't tremendously common. The only animal I have ever had born with it was a colt. We still have him because no one else would ever want him. He's not a good doer. My mother had a puppy born with it, long ago.
There are many defects which can cause the condition. The urinary channel from the bladder through the ubilicus fails to close. In your kid's case, it is likely that he forced the channel to remain open, straining, because he could not force the urine out of the ureters which were not connected to his bladder.
To correct the condition requires major abdominal surgery. The Umbilical stump is removed and if the ureters are not connected, and if they can be stretched to connect, they can be connected, but it's costly.
I lucked out with our colt. Everything else was in order. Only the umbilical stump had to be removed. It still cost nearly a thousand dollars to repair and the colt was only 9 days old when he underwent surgery. It would have cost a lot more, but I have friends.
A dog vet could probably do the surgery for a goat kid for a lot less. Maybe a couple hundred.
The trick is to catch it early. When your baby goat is born and pees for the first time, lean down and put your eyes on the ubilicus to be sure no urine is squirting or dribbling out of it at the belly or from the end. When the umbilicus is tied off, the urine will usually dribble out the belly, where the umbilicus attaches to the skin, running down the outside of the umbilicus and dripping off the end.
Animals born with a patent urachus can't survive without surgery. They develop infections and die, usually within the first few weeks of life. I would never do the surgery for a goat kid myself. I don't believe in forcing young animals to endure painful surgeries and weeks in recovery if they are likely to end up on someone's dinner plate anyway, and I sure wouldn't breed them. But, if the animal is intended for a family pet, and if it stands to enjoy a long, healthy life without pain, it might be worth it to the people and the animal in question. Each animal is an individual. Just because our colt didn't grow out well after his surgery doesn't mean that other animals that go through the surgery would do the same thing. Especially with humans and lighter weight animals, it is probably less of a health issue, once they have recovered from the surgery.

Better luck next time. Lilbit was a victim of the genetic lottery of nature's experimentation. So sad.
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